Roxane Heaton, CIO, Macmillan Cancer Support

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Welcome to CIO Leadership Live UK.
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I'm Lee Rennick Executive Director,
CIO Communities
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and I'm very excited to introduce
and welcome Dr.
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Roxane Heaton,
CIO, Macmillan Cancer Support.
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Roxane, please introduce yourself.
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And could you tell us a little bit
about your current role?
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Thanks so much,
Lee, and lovely to be here today.
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So as I've mentioned, my name is Roxane
Heaton, the Chief Information Officer
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of one of the UK's largest cancer charities,
which is Macmillan Cancer Support.
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And I'm responsible for technology
and digital and data optimization.
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We are 98% funded by fundraising
and were are the size of 250.
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So it's really important
we spend our money wisely.
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People living with cancer.
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Well, thank you so much for sharing that
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and I really appreciate you
joining us here today.
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Roxanne, we've created the series
to support diversity in technology
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and to listen to women working in
the sector who are building and supporting
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DE&I. This year
the IWD theme was #embraceequity.
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So the first question,
can you please tell us a little bit
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about your own career
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path and provide some insights
or tips on that road path. As a woman
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especially, are there any lessons learned
that you could share?
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It's a very great question
and I think it's applicable for any sector.
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I went to an all girls boarding school
and then straight into university
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doing engineering.
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So when there were only seven females,
our course, nearly 100.
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So it was straight
into a very different world.
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And I remember what I've always learned.
Especially someone who, I've got a stammer.
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So I'm always aware of different
superpowers and everyone's got superpowers
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and it's about maximizing those
because we're all very different.
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So I've had a squigley career.
Which I think
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is hugely valuable, and especially in
discussion with people. We're all different.
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We will bring different
perspectives to the table.
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So I started my career in the Royal Navy
after a quick stint in banking.
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Actually,
which got me really hungry for making sure
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we did great things with money
and the restrictions and things money.
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But yeah,
I spent 12 years in the Royal Navy,
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which I think really
is embedded my instinctive
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ambitions and behaviors of
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teamwork and being a team member first
and a leader second.
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But actually as a leader is
it is everyone's responsibility.
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I'm really lucky to jump from there
to Morrisons, one of the UK's
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largest supermarkets. Which is end to end
retailer, so everything from farm to fork.
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So hughly interesting.
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I hope I can touch with some
some insight there later.
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But everything I learned through
all of the really again, just showed me
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that whatever skill you bring,
it can
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you can bring a different view.
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So finding different allies
and different people, who could champion
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you was,
I think, hardest in my early, early time.
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But actually it's been super interesting
as I've gone on later in my career
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to find people who I really learned
from are those around my network.
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And that's
where I get my greatest learning.
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But actually those are
my greatest allies too.
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And it probably took me a little while
to realize that.
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So building your relationships across
networks, the best thing you can do?
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Well,
I really appreciate you sharing that.
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And it's looks like and we're
going to talk about this in just a minute.
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and it segues
really well into the next question.
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So I was researching some data
around women and technology in the UK,
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and some new data reveals
that the proportion of female employees
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in the UK, in UK tech has declined for
the first time in five years by over 2%.
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Now, this is also happened in Canada,
which is very interesting.
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So it looks like it might be a bit
of a worldwide global phenomenon.
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This study actually revealed
that under 15% of IT
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directors are women
in the sector in the UK.
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So you are really a big supporter
of diversity and equity.
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And I was wondering if you could share
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what you believe organizations
could do to support diverse workforces.
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Gosh, it's a really concerning stat isn't it.
And it's something that after
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so much work by a lot of people
across across the globe to increase that.
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So female leaders, female CEOs
and definitely females in technology. It's
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really concerning is why is it going to be
something to really unpack?
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But it's not only concerning
for the workforce we have, it's
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concerning the solutions
that we're designing.
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And that's why it's so important
that we really address this.
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So we must normalize the conversation.
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A big thing that I try and do is
talk in business outcomes.
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Make sure it's really open to non tech techies
as I try and call the people
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add a huge or just as much amount of value,
if not more value.
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If you talk about the user, your technologist
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because everybody uses technology
and I would love to hear from everybody.
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It's about getting in early as well
and making it and making it relevant
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for people back to normalizing.
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Help people understand what value
they can bring to the technology sector.
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But it's not good enough.
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So we've worked really hard
in terms of making new routes,
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sideways routes through retraining
and also realizing not everyone's a unicorn.
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So as long as we can talk about
clear development plans
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and that's for everyone, not not,
not not just females,
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we can support everyone to grow.
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So we've now currently got 40% female in our organization,
which is fantastic, in technology, and
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50% female in my leadership team.
We've gone from from
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from almost one
one out of 12 to 50%, which is fantastic.
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But we must keep pushing that
and having those role models.
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There's that, there's an old phrase
that you can't be what you can't see.
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So we need more diversity of lots
of different demographics
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at all different spaces in people's
careers and understanding
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what are the traps that the as you
mentioned, that 2% let's work out why.
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So yeah, it's really important.
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Yeah, I think it is.
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And given that you said you started
your career in engineering,
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I mean, I think there's that ability
to look at how younger women
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are looking at STEAM versus STEM
and bringing the arts
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and you talked about the soft skills like
making sure that people have you know,
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we recognized people's skills
outside of technology
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that seems to be trending a lot
in these conversations I'm having.
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Like we want people to bring in skills
and then a lot of the,
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you know, male allies
I've been speaking to
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in the tech industry have been saying,
you know, look,
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we know that women don't apply for jobs
if they only have 50 or 60%
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of their skills based, they don't think
they should, whereas men will.
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And so, you know,
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just the male allies that are encouraging
and looking at those applications
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that come in, encouraging women to apply,
I think that's such an important part.
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So and just as you mentioned right now,
having this dialog is so impactful for me.
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Every time I speak to a woman
who's working in the sector
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to talk about their career
when they've come,
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I gain some insights myself, so I really
appreciate you sharing that very much.
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You mentioned in the beginning that you've
had a career in various sectors,
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and a lot of CIOs I speak with talk
about knowledge gained by working across
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sectors, you know, and the key learnings
in their career through that.
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You've worked
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both in private and public sector
and now you're in the charitable sector.
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So could you please provide some insights
on how you utilize your learnings
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between sectors and perhaps why
cross-sector learning is really important?
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So when I think about this question,
I think about this question, I think about
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our user doesn't care.
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I only work in the charitable sector
or the public sector or the private sector.
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They don't just experience one sector.
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They bounce across each sector
and they expect
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the same sort of level of service.
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Not everyone expects the Amazon experience
if one on one to shop at Amazon,
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but absolutely
it's about keeping up with Joneses.
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So it's not good enough to just think that
because I'm a I'm a charity, I'm it's
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okay that I offer a less good experience
doing the experience in those other sectors.
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So I think it's always keeping
punchy is really important
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because otherwise
the users will go elsewhere.
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And they'll get the service from elsewhere
and donate their money elsewhere.
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From my perspective.
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That's why I mentioned that networking
is so important and huge learnings
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with peers
and we're all hungry for the same thing.
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There's not enough money
to go around to reinvent the wheel
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and the wheel
doesn't need to be reinvented
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in a lot places. We can learn from each other
as we're going on
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in each each journey
into different use of technologies
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and soft, skills
and sharing that diversity. So
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what I've learned,
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either packing boxes of boxes
in a warehouse
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or understanding
the fish canning line at Grimsby,
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for example to look at to look inside
fishes, make sure that they are good
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enough, the quality or even the very high
tech potato sorter on the manufacturing site,
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just to give a few examples
of the supermarket
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you see behind the sort of the shop front,
I always think about how technology,
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the user, the journey,
the efficiency for people are so valuable.
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And so often when I'm talking to different
stakeholders and users,
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when I think about different experiences
I've had across those different sectors,
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I try and I always think
there's different way to solve a problem
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and that there are always sort of certain
friction and always I find an analysis
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I can do from a sector
that I've been in
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to finding new ways to solve problems.
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I think. So
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the charity sector
is no different to another sector.
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Even more
so with the same stakeholder pressures.
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We've all got shareholders,
daily profit and loss targets,
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it's just different
things we're looking at over
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revenue implications
or even when there's revenue implications.
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But we can again keep up with the Joneses
we can really push ahead
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and look outside
the global trends as well,
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because someone could have done it out out
there, and so why not?
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So if my my only advice is always think
differently, always keep hungry
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and so you can stay ahead of the game.
And that's absolutely fine.
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Looking across sector, across. The world,
I love that.
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And you know,
when you talk about across the world
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and in the charitable sector,
you know, a few years back the UK
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introduced the tap to pay
at a lot of events. Right?
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And so instead of having to put your £5 in
or whatever into the donation box,
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you could just tap your card.
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Well, that hadn't come out in Canada,
but it was learning through charities here
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that's happening over there. I went,
Oh my God, this is amazing.
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And so, like the banking industry
did a whole innovation around
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that in the UK, which again,
you talk about global learning.
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So I really appreciate
you bringing that up
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because that is such an important part
of it.
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And obviously, again, your background
working at Morrisons,
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having that opportunity to look at,
you know, how food is processed
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and probably looking at blockchain
and other things just, just again
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enhances your role that you're in now
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because you're having those outside
learnings.
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A CIO at a roundtable said to me once,
or we were at a roundtable
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talking about cloud
and all sorts of things
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and but the one CIO said,
you know, people do expect the end user
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does expect that Amazon experience
your order one day and get it the next.
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Worthy We talked about the Ocado
experience of food delivery
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or whatever,
so I appreciate you sharing that with us.
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And I wanted to really talk
about tech for good.
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It really seems to be
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with a lot of the CIOs,
especially in the UK, talking about this
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and really being intentional
about looking at that.
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And the last time we spoke,
you spoke about your passion for tech
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for good, really to support inclusion
of underrepresented.
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communities in accessing technology.
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And you made a really interesting
point to me around,
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you know, building data models
that can really help inform that.
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So really being intentional
and working with data to understand
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where you can, you know,
support underrepresented communities.
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So could you please discuss this
and perhaps some of the ways
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you believe leaders
and organizations can support this?
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This is a huge question and again,
it's super exciting.
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I probably think your last comment actually
about different sectors
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and globally as well,
because I think about Blockbuster,
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which is a UK film hiring company.
I always say
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you don't want to turn into a Blockbuster,
so the need was that change
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but it happened a little bit too late.
And I think that's really interesting
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about the global thing as well
and about doing doing tech for good.
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The nations who are really performing
are actually some of those
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who are furthest behind in terms
of digital inclusion, and that's why
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I think it's really important
to not be not be complacent.
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There were some really
some really groundbreaking activities
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in different areas of the world
who were leapfrogging us in tap to pay
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yu've mentioned
because they need too. That need is so critical.
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And so when I think about
looking at different data models, I've got
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some different viewpoints
on joining up different data models
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from different styles of data,
for example,
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and the power of that, because we
we actually only look at the boundaries
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that we set in or the datasets
that we currently see.
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And so by thinking differently,
by looking into this into space,
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as one of my peers would say,
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and just searching for new stars,
you can find insight.
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And so when I think about the charity
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sector that I work in, I currently serve
a certain portion of people in living with cancer
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that's not good enough.
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And so whereas when I was going to
when I think how I can solve that,
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I think what could help joining that up.
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So this experience from when I worked in
central government at the height of COVID,
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when we we formulated the discussions
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to join up different datasets
from across government departments.
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And what the power of that show
is that through aggregated data sets
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that were anonymized and had a kind of
a nationwide view, but localized impact.
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You could see the different impact
of different datasets being joined up.
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So for example, water data
or people the number of people on the road,
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you can see the see the transmissions,
for example, either increase or decrease.
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And I think the same thing can happen in
different examples is using open
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datasets or datasets
from other other other organizations
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that can be shared.
It's for example linked to social care.
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So what
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at what point in a social ecosystem
can you apply a certain lever
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and the individual will not go back
to social care like a rubber band.
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And so it's understanding those datasets
and understanding well
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actually if you provide that lever over
and over again, you can move that child
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and that dependance from social care
and break and break the trend.
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And I think that's so important
because obviously
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the data is out there,
but we in society aren't using it.
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We're trying to hold on to it so closely.
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But actually we all know it's there
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and different people are
using it, different activities.
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I mean, we've been acutually
using it, even offline.
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So as a retailer for example, someone
would look out, see it's raining
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or see a film being loaned to another cinema
and adjust their offering.
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People have naturally done it for years.
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But actually
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what can we do if we actually harness
the power of data sitting in systems,
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making sure it's safe
and controlled in the people's trust
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and can people control of that
data is really clear,
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but actually showing the benefits
really with real life applications,
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then if we look at different societies,
have achieved this really, really well
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through COVID. They democratized the trust
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and they democratised data, control input in discussions
and it really increase
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people's engagement with activity
and the trust in the entire system.
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And therefore onwards
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they could understand the motivators
and detractors from using digital tools.
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So I think it's really, really powerful
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as one element of tech figured.
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And so there's so many foundations
we put in place
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before we get on to shiny new things
such as, well not just AI, but elements
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of AI or other things, because there's people
need to want to trust the system.
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So foundations are really important as part of it.
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You're really inspiring me.
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Thank you so much for saying that,
because I'm thinking
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we're going to our next question,
which is going to be about innovation.
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And GenAI.
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But, you know,
I think what you're saying is
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we have an app and what I'm hearing is
almost we have this opportunity right now
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with this new inflection point in tech
and maybe quantum,
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You know, I feel like
Quantum is really coming in behind.
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So there's that opportunity to potentially
look at how we're connecting this data.
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Imagine that
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at the speed of which we could do things
quicker and faster and support individuals
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and how we could share.
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And if corporations were aligned to that,
to making ensure there was, you know,
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because I think of organizations
that donate food to food banks
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or other organizations,
imagine if that was all connected, how
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that would really change the world.
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So, yeah,
you're really it's very inspirational.
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So thank you for sharing that.
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And I did want to go through
to our last question, which is I'm asking
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everybody this question right now,
and the theme is really around innovation.
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and GenAI, so,
you know, obviously, GenAI
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and LLMs are very prevalent right now
in discussions about innovation
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and just in discussions
about technology, really.
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So could you share your views on that
and perhaps some of the ways
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you're looking at to deploy
or what you're seeing in the market?
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So if I think about this
and I'm really a big fan of shiny toys,
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but shiny toys
that are bound with their limitations
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in the discussion.
There's definitely a place keeping up
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and understanding what's out in the market
and play and playing safely.
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But at the same time, I think there were
some foundations that we thought about.
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If I use example,
one of my wonderful medical team
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I'm really privileged to work with because
they work directly with the frontline.
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Is that I
think about we need to be contextualized.
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We've got a really real critical, exciting
point in a technological revolution
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or evolution to think, to recontextualize,
not just do as we've always done.
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So arthritis, for example,
to be treated the same way since the 1950s
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and one dataset of white middle aged men
in the north of Manchester in the UK.
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Why do we still do that?
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And so it becomes
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pretty apparent that actually the medical
treatments are very different now.
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And so the same solution of fix
is isn't working.
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So in the same way,
how can we use the opportunity
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with AI and large language models
and whatever is going to come next
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in order to recontextualize?
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I go back to the bones,
what actually the user needing.
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And how can we solve that problem?
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Because no doubt it will create
more discussions about dependencies
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and also get rid of the waste
effot. All those processes and also expose
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second order effects of using AI and
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LLMs.
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This is
all done for if you make the hospital porter
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group more efficient, of course
it's going to open up more bed spaces.
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Some of these some of the examples we just
mapped them out and think a bit broader.
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We can think about different,
different implications.
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So for me it's about exciting people,
about the opportunities, data
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to really talk to people about ethics
and talking about biases and help
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people understand what is that excitement
to level thing to bring on on the journey.
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Because at the end of day we're
all looking to make the future better,
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but it must be secure, resilient
and joined up
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and efficient because all of these things
are really expensive as well.
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So we all we I think some of us know
some of the pricing models
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with new AI systems
through our hype vendors
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are staff to trying to go live and
it's extortionate frankly.
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I as a charity can't keep up.
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So how can we all get on this bus and be
supporting the users in the same way,
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including those those vendors.
Obviously there will be people who will be left behind,
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and I don't
I don't mind if it's us, but I'm really
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conscious of the person using the system
because if we're being left behind
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the user who needs the most services
will absolutely be left behind.
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And that that and that that the people I'm
I'm worried about.
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So how I answer questions in my mind
about knowing what's what
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what's out there absolutely making sure
that the foundations
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of data sharing data ethics and data
management are in place
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and a real hunger for people
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to understand the opportunities
and and to excite people with with that.
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Because at the same time,
that will open up those motivators
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for others
to get on a digital inclusion journey,
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which will only help the health, wealth
and ultimate well-being
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in the community
if if they are enabled and excited to make
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best use of the exciting technologies
that are out there.
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Dr. Roxane, you're very, very inspiring
and I really appreciate this conversation
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today.
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It has been just phenomenal for me
to listen to you and hear
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give you points on technology.
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And so thank you so much.
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Thank you.
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Thank you very much.
I really loveed talking to you. Thank you.
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And if you're interested in learning more,
please don't hesitate to visit us
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at cio.com/uk
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Thanks again.